Insecure Writer's Support Group

Notes on the Women in Publishing Summit 2020 #IWSG #writetips #pubtips

It’s a new month, which means it’s time for another posting of the Insecure Writer’s Support Group.

Learn more here.

There is this wonderful writer’s resource I stumbled upon last year and enjoyed just as much this year.

The first online writing and publishing conference dedicated to women, the Women in Publishing Summit is a FREE 5-day online conference, featuring over 40 authors, publishers, editors, graphic artists, marketers, book sellers, mindset coaches, & more!
Held annually the first week of March we’ll end with a bang on International Women’s Day. The next event will be online March 2-8, 2020 but you must register to access. The Summit is a combination of guest expert interviews, panel discussions, tutorial presentations, and LIVE interviews, run completely online that you can enjoy from your phone, computer, or tablet.

Women in Publishing Summit 2020

I prefer doing the free version. It forces me to actually attend the conference every day and learn. (I need deadlines to perform.)

What did I learn in a week of an overload of information?

Okay, so I didn’t watch every video – one can only learn so much in a day. I chose the topics I found I needed most and could fit into the time I had each day for the conference.

Day 1: The Big Picture

Why you need a team.

A team helps you get there faster. It’s like pushing fast forward.

  • VA – Virtual Admin/Assistant
  • AA – Author Assistant

Can have a one-off project VA or a long term VA.

Different types of VAs:

  • Social media VA
  • Admin VA
  • Publishing VA
  • Website VA

Can hire trained VAs from 90 Day VA or on Instagram #virtualassistantforhire.

Not sure you need a VA? Make a list of everything you need to do in a day to get your job (writing business) done. Mark what you like/don’t like to do. Hire a VA to do the things you don’t like to do: it makes you more efficient by taking the things off your plate that makes you angry or takes away time from what you really need to do.

Have a contract. Build trust with that person. And remember that you get what you pay for.

What I got out of it:

I have an AA who organises live launches/book readings for me and deals with traditional media. (I already did this with last year’s launch of “Magic at Midnight”.)

Now I’ve taken on a VA to assist with Pinterest (that black hole that sucks you in and lets you out after hours of going down the rabbit hole) and Instagram. I’ve set up what I want out of these networks, what I expect her to do and how to do it.

And, of course, I have an IT guy on my team (on retainer) who helps with the tech stuff in my business (hardware, software, new apps, etc.).

I’m thinking of taking on a VA to deal with my admin (getting through my inboxes, etc.) and another to deal with the publishing aspect (loading stuff to KDP and D2D, dealing with designers and editors, etc.). But, I’m a bit of a control freak so this will probably not happen until it is truly necessary.

Representation in books and sharing your story to help others feel less marginalised.

Disability doesn’t mean inability.

WHO (World Health Organisation): 15% of population has some form of disability.

Audiobooks make books accessible to print disabled people.

Label images and buttons on website and email to make it better for visually disabled people. (Check out the alternative text place on images to do this.)

WHO: 2.8 million people are visually impaired.

When writing about someone with a disability:

  • Learn about things that are different from their own day-to-day.
  • Not “different” not “other”. See them as “ordinary”. One of the crowd. They do life differently, but they aren’t different.
  • NO superhero abilities to do normal things e.g. make coffee.
  • Use sensitivity readers (someone with the disability you write about).
What I got out of it:

I already use sensitivity readers.

I already have audiobooks (though I’ll have to turn more of my books into audio!).

I have to label my images on my website better.

And I now have the courage – and tools – to use more disabled people in my books.

Building your career foundation

Ask the big question: What do you want? Then organise life around this.

Plan your success. Have your vision. Why are you writing? This affects what you write, how you publish, how your launch will work, etc.

Do one thing every day that builds up to the big question.

Downsize to have better focus. E.g. get rid of debt to “downsize” stress.

Have systems in place:

  • Planners
  • Email list
  • Time-management
  • Etc.

Have tools:

  • ProWritingAid (helps with grammar, spelling, etc.)
  • Fictionary (shows how good your MS is rated with story arc, etc.)
  • A mentor (someone who has done what you want to do)
  • Women in Publishing Summit
  • Etc.

Always invest in your dream.

Everything you write has to convey your professionalism and brand.

What I got out of it:

I already have ProWritingAid (an excellent resource that finds things a human wouldn’t. Makes MS clean which means lower editing and proofreading costs).

I want Fictionary!

I have great systems in place, but I should look at my planners to make sure that I work at the Big Question every day.

Finding your voice and writing your narrative

Share thoughts and fears = powerful for change (books).

It’s important to be uncomfortable (story).

Use words to heal and educate.

Be aware of what you know and don’t know.

Be honest with yourself. Be authentic. Be bold when telling your story.

Branding: people need to know what you stand for and what you stand against.

Write fiction based on real situations. Art imitating life. Write about the hot button issues – understand all sides and change the world.

What I got out of it:

Using fiction based on real situations is powerful. I did it with “Black Moon” and the response has been overwhelming. So I must do this more!

I think I did a good job in 2019 showing what I stand for and against. (Check out the video of my book launch for more.) I should do this more in 2020.

That looks like me! Representation in children’s book market.

If not in a book, it means it doesn’t matter. So if a race/culture/disability/etc. isn’t represented in a book, it means (to that child) that they don’t matter.

Book recommendation where there are 2 POV of same situation: I’m Not Dying with You Tonight.

Books are windows that allow us to see into other people’s lives.

Everyone should be able to enjoy and relate to a character. Which is why “Black Panther” was so huge. It showed a reality that doesn’t always exist for characters of colour (heroes instead of villains, heroes instead of domestic workers, etc.).

Have books with rainbow babies.

What I got out of it:

I want to read I’m Not Dying with You Tonight. I’ve added it to my TBR.

I’m going to have rainbow babies in my stories. (Love that term. I’m from a rainbow nation, so I’m totally for that.)

Day 2: Knowledge Base for Authors

Using psychology to build better characters

Characters that feel realistic is what keeps readers.

Everything has to feel like life or death for your character whether it really is or not. It builds tension for the reader.

Listen to what they say and don’t say. Don’t have characters say exactly and everything they feel. Don’t make it too easy for the reader. Use verbal and non-verbal communication.

Can get all struggles of characters (e.g. addiction, loneliness, etc.) in self-help section in bookstore. Helps to write characters who are not you. Diversity!

It does not matter what happens to you, what matters is the story you tell yourself. E.g. car crash kills everyone you love. A) you tell yourself the world is out to get you. B) you cherish your loved-ones while you have them.

Book recommendation: How to Build Better Characters.

What I got out of it:

I want to read How to Build Better Characters. Added to my TBR.

Remember point about everything being life or death.

Get self-help books for characters!

Gutsy Great Novelist

Masterclass about writing and the writer’s life. Had a printable worksheet to do whole thing on.

4 Hot Principles:

  1. You are not alone.
  2. Accept your reality.
  3. Understand your self-doubt.
  4. Embrace your self-doubt.
What I got out of it:

Absolutely loved it. Writing retreats sound like they are totally worth it (taking time to just write your novel without any distractions).

Why most authors fail and how to avoid it

Most important: cover, interior design and giving value to specific readers.

Success vs staying on the struggle bus:

  • Goals
  • Efficiency
  • Audience

Rich author method

  1. Who’s hungry for what you have to say?
  2. Look for comp authors on Amazon and emulate successful indies in genre.
  3. Know what your reader wants, not just what you want to write.
  4. Figure out where they hang out (your target audience). Reach them with a combination of public speaking and social media.
  5. Figure out what you are going to do and how you are going to do it.

Recognise those who add to your community and reward them.

What I got out of it:

I really need to focus on my goals, efficiency and audience.

I have to concentrate more on what readers want instead of just what I want to write.

I already recognise those who add to my community and reward them when they join my Mythmaker Clique (get free books so they can continue to review them).

Book Cover Design and Interior Layout

Cover is the most important part.

Don’t DIY on Canva if you aren’t trained. Know what makes a good cover. Know the elements. Each part of the cover has its own purpose.

IBPA has checklist of what has to be on cover and inside book.

Interview several designers to find the right one for you (you click with the person and they specialise in your genre).

Have cover designer make three covers for you to choose from. Scientifically proven for great results.

What I got out of it:

I need to re-interview for cover designers.

I need the IBPA checklist to make sure everything is really right (and not just assume that those I work with know what they are doing).

Day 3: Tech Tools and Resources

Writing partnerships: co-authoring, ghost writing and developmental editing

Developmental editing: theme, story arc, etc. work from chapter to chapter.

Editing = dozens of micro-decisions in a minute.

There’s no use publishing an inferior version of your dreams. Take your time. It takes 6-8 months for a ghost writer to write a memoir.

You have to connect with your partner and have them be passionate about the book. Interview several people and go with your gut.

What I got out of it:

It’s okay not to publish a book a month and to only do it when the book is truly ready to be in the public eye.

Systems and tools to create a constant flow of readers

Author’s Abyss: marketing without time to write.

Use the buyer’s path to market books.

  • (place in physical store) Be clear about genre and audience.
  • (browse title) Brand: colours, font, etc.
  • (flip to back) About, endorsement, blurb.

Meet reader genre expectations.

And have a huge email list.

What I got out of it:

Make sure your book is perfect (cover, interior, keywords, categories, etc.) and the book will market itself. (I think this is just part of it, though an important part.)

What’s an author platform and why is it crucial to your success?

Book sales are a numbers game: more people = more sales.

Approx. 1 in 25 people in your warm market will buy your book.

You must build an audience to sell books.

Clear path:

Who is your target audience?

  • Influence (the people who are following you.)
  • The places you create for people to follow you (website, social media, etc.)
  • Your connections (other influencers you partner with)

What steps do you need to take to get in front of them?

Have tools:

  • Internet access
  • Social media accounts
  • Free book review sites
  • Personal email (add email signature)
  • Website
  • Email CRM (like Mailchimp, Convertkit, etc.)
  • Virtual Admin/Social media manager
  • Paid advertising
  • Training programs

How do I stay on track? Roadmap!

  • Start with the end in mind.
  • What are your goals with your book? (Knowing this is crucial to your success.)
  • What is your budget? (website, etc.)
  • What can you do on your own vs what do you need help with? (List everything.)
  • What is your timeframe?
  • Who do you know that you can partner with?

Basic understanding of key marketing strategies.

Who are you writing for?

  • Who is going to buy your book?
  • What do you understand about this person?
  • What are they going to gain from your book?

Resources and tips for success.

  • Give book away for word-of-mouth marketing.
  • Grow email list.
  • Find promo lists.
  • Utilise tools like Netgalley, BookBub, BookFunnel, etc.
  • Look for awards programs.
  • Small steps (about page, email signature, etc.)
  • Paid strategies (ads)
  • Get experts (VA, Marketing/Ads expert, Book shepherd, Publicist, courses)

Be consistent.

People need to know about you.

What I got out of it:

I need to grow my email list by a lot.

I’ve added a signature to my personal email (Ronel Janse van Vuuren, Dark Fantasy Author,

I need to learn more about paid advertising.

Audiobooks: the must-have format for the now and future publisher

Needs to be engaging. People need to like the voice.

90% of audiobooks sell through Audible.

Fantasy and romance does best in this market.

What I got out of it:

There was a lot of waffle in this presentation where the woman being interviewed by Alexa was dismissive about other services, promoting her company as being the best. Grr.

Personally, I use Audioshelf for everything audiobook. They produce and distribute my audiobooks and I’m very happy with them. And as for the stats in this presentation: I’ve found that library distribution is key to audiobook sales (get paid per check out).

Day 4: Marketing Extravaganza!

Tips for marketing a children’s book

Marketing is the difference between selling 2 and 2 million books (when cover, interior, categories, content, keywords, etc. is perfect).

Must have at least one social media profile.

Must have a website with a landing page all about the book.

Having a blog is indispensable.

Secret to success: hard work.

Audience for children’s books: teachers, parent, caregivers, etc. who actually buy the books.

3 largest search engines:

  • Google
  • YouTube
  • Pinterest

Virtual book tours are the key to success. Have 2 posts every day for two weeks with influencers with engaged audiences.

Have a live reading of your book during launch period. (Facebook, YouTube, etc.)

Do school visits.

Do your best and get it out there!

What I got out of it:

Whittle down all the social media to concentrate on Instagram and Pinterest.

Do a live reading on YouTube during next launch!

Do focused book launch.

Editorial reviews and book award contests

Publishing is at the epicentre of technology.

Traditional publishers do anything for editorial reviews: they set the tone for customer reviews.

Customer reviews aren’t about stars but about how many reviews you have.

4 types of reviews:

  1. Editorial reviews (paid, touches on craft of writing) B
  2. Peer reviews (from authors in same genre) C
  3. Consumer reviews D
  4. Manuscript reviews (MS assessment: will it sell?) A

Reading is a form of entertainment. How will a person choose to spend free time?

  • 3-minute song
  • 1-hour TV episode
  • 3-hour movie
  • 8-10 hours for a book

Negative reviews are good:

  1. You get feedback.
  2. Something one person won’t like, another would.

Audiobooks are key: increases book sales because a person can clean house/fold laundry/etc. while “reading” a book.

Authors build up credibility with reviews.

Awards are important.

  • Establishes author credibility and competence.
  • Differentiates from other titles.
  • Book winning award helps with point of sale (nice and big announcement of this where book appears).

Treat your book as a business.

Writer’s association award count, too! (Starting point.)

Prestigious awards can lead to 6 figure signings with big publishing companies.

What I got out of it:

My writing awards are valid despite my Imposter Syndrome.

I have to get editorial and peer reviews.

How to rapidly expand your email list

Free PDF download of spam trigger words.

  • Decide purpose.
  • Sales funnel.
  • Lead magnets (various options).
  • Email automation and welcome sequence.
  • Email content – share what you’re busy with.
  • Look at metrics for what’s working and what’s not.
What I got out of it:

The PDF was useful, but everything else I already learned through webinars with Nick Stephenson.

How to market a series

Explode sales with series.

Go with your passion to write what you love, writing stories readers will love.

Paranormal hold up a mirror to the world.

You want to fit in with your cover, blurb, etc. = genre loyalty.

Readers love specific tropes and look for this. So write perfectly to market.

Remember: it’s a book, not a reflection of who you are. It is for an audience of a specific genre. It doesn’t matter what you like, it’s about what the reader likes.

Readers can tell if you enjoy what you’re doing.

Find the formula for your genre.

Series important:

  • Publishers like series
  • Sell-through
  • Easy to establish brand (same covers, etc.)
  • Readers are series loyal first, genre loyal second, author loyal third (think JK Rowling: most readers who’ve read and loved Harry Potter didn’t read her other books).
  • Sales platforms (e.g. Amazon) work hard at promoting series (also boughts, series page, etc.)
  • Can bundle books together as boxset (another product with different audience).

Put on your publishing and marketing hat and think like a publisher.

Types of series:

Epic series (e.g. The Lord of the Rings)

  • One story following a character through a world where stakes and tension get higher (from Bagend to the entire Middle Earth)
  • Books usually end on a cliffhanger (readers say they hate cliffhangers, but they love them)

Band of brothers series (e.g. Argeneau family by Lynsey Sands)

  • Usually in romance.
  • Each book is about a different main character in the family group/close group and an outsider who becomes part of the group.
  • Readers feel part of this group.
  • Cameos of favourite characters are great.

Adventures of… (e.g. Sherlock Holmes)

  • Sometimes an overarching plot, but not important.
  • Same main characters (Sherlock), same locations (London).

Serials (e.g. City of Wishes by Rachel Morgan)

  • Was a big thing in Victorian times with new story in big story published in magazines.
  • Works great with digital publishing (quantity for price is not an issue)
  • TV show style.
  • Popular in Sci-Fi and Fantasy.

Trust me, I know what I talk about (non-fiction)

  • Use above techniques.
  • Overarching branding in how-to books
  • Group topics together for a series

Pretty bookshelf (poetry)

  • Series looks pretty together on a bookshelf.

5 series mistakes PDF download.


  1. Other authors in genre (look what they do with blurb, cover, type of series, etc.)
  2. Make first book in series free and advertise first book (sell-through is where profit lies).
  3. If a series isn’t performing, stop it.
  4. Publish books as close together as possible (readers read so many books, they forget about you if it takes too long): can write entire series before starting publishing books.
  5. Rewrite a scene from one character’s POV as in book and add this as a freebie for newsletter subscribers.
  6. Add pre-order links for next book in series right below cliffhanger ending = immediately capture reader.

Put on your publishing hat and decide:

  1. Series?
  2. Type of series?
  3. What to write.
  4. How to approach.
  5. Goal.
  6. Look at other authors in genre and how they do this.
  7. Plot out series (details, etc.).
  8. Collaborate on boxset? Do a shared-world series with another author?
  9. How to make most out of series already have: box set? New covers? Etc.

Produce a book that is written and designed perfectly to market = key to success.

What I got out of it:

Loved Steff’s interview! I’ve followed her on Goodreads, chose two of her series to read and bought them! Check out Steffanie Holmes on Goodreads for something fun to read 🙂

Enjoyed her non-fic approach and follow her on Rage Against the Manuscript.

I’m going to implement all of her tips!

Book launches and blog tours

You get one chance with a book launch.

Good book = success. BUT it’s a numbers game (bigger audience = success).

A successful book launch comes from having people excited about book.

A book launch has many moving pieces. Each piece also has its own moving pieces.

  • Instagram campaign.
  • Advance reviewer campaign.
  • Influencer campaign.
  • Blog tour campaign.

Places to promote early:

  • Social media
  • Website
  • Amazon, BookBub, etc. author page.
  • Podcasts in genre.
  • Bloggers in genre.
  • Reviewers in genre.

Good publicity at any time is good for sales.

YouTube is an amazing tool: do a reading of your book there and remember hashtags and website link. Do a chapter before launch to build buzz.

Make it easy for other people to share about book:

  • Content and copy about book besides actual book for reviewers.
  • Keeps messaging constant about book across platforms.
  • “swipe copy” makes it easy to adapt marketing copy for bloggers to use on blogs and social media.

Booktrailers! People like to consume information in different formats, e.g. text, image, video.

This is the opportunity to talk to readers. Be authentic.

People do business with people they like and trust. Engage and get involved.

Make sure people can find you online. Make sure you have a way to communicate with them.

What I got out of it:

Have “swipe copy” part of media kit.

My plan of having booktrailers for all of my books is spot on.

Use YouTube more!

Day 5: Crushing Imposter Syndrome and Business Growth

Why Author-Entrepreneurs choose self-publishing

Self-publishing is great for type A control freaks (like me!).

In charge of:

  • Quality
  • Timeline
  • product

Own your ISBN.

Do all stages of editing (developmental for structurally sound, copy/line for sentences making sense, proofreading for typos).

Hybrid publishing combines the best of both worlds.

Have a long marketing lead-in for book launch. What do you want from the book on the publication date?

The self-publishing author-entrepreneur writes their own rules.

Pitfalls and solutions:

  1. cover – must grab attention as a thumbnail
  2. marketing – start marketing early
  3. plan and budget – will spiral out of control without it

Always order a print proof of your book before doing a big print order (something wonky always happens).

Use IBPA Industry standards checklist.

Self-publishing is a choice, not settling because you couldn’t get traditionally published.

Professionally self-published books are indistinguishable from traditionally published books.

What I got out of it:

Do a long marketing lead-in for books.

How to make a living as a writer

Recommended book: “The Right to Write – Invitation and Initiation Into the Writing Life” by Julia Cameron.

Always read stuff out loud – ears aren’t as easily fooled as eyes.

Practice writing.

Have a thick skin. (No matter how good you are, someone will always find fault with your writing, etc.)

Backlist is important for a career in writing.

Create multiple streams of income from what you know. How can one book do more? (audiobooks, ebooks, paperback, etc.)

Use book club guide at back of book to inspire blog posts about book.

Use holidays for marketing themes (e.g. do book reading at bookstore with a small speech about different types of love in your book for Valentine’s Day).

Ways to make money:

  • teaching (workshops, online courses, blog)
  • influencer (review specific category book – how they get it right and wrong. Read all books in genre. Reviews show off your writing skills.)
  • podcast and advertising.

See what helps you build credibility for your career = good for gaining traction, building right audience, etc.

What I got out of it:

Be an influencer. I’ve been (sort of) doing it with my Bookish Stuff posts on Mondays. Now I need to add focus to that.

Get the book that’s been languishing on my TBR for ages! (Recommended book at top.)

Getting out of your own way

Don’t let Life get in the way—it’s only you getting in your way.

High performance:

  • focus
  • clarity
  • courage
  • productivity
  • purpose
  • influence

2 types of fear:

  • hungry bear in forest rearing up in front of you, ready to eat you (real fear)
  • something that might happen (perceived fear)

You get what you focus on. (Difference between thinking and doing stuff of failure and success.)

Power + Focus = Effect (work you do to get goals done)


Get back your passion and purpose to be excited about your work.

What does success look like to you?

Every book needs a business plan:

  • pitch (what it’s about and what reader gets)
  • market (reader profile, etc.)
  • competition (how book is better)
  • evaluate (using above)
  • write (including editing, etc.)
  • market

Make sure your brand is consistent, on point and makes sense for what you write. (Blog and what you share on social media.)

Have a publishing plan: books (in order) you will publish

Know common thread: topics in book you can blog about,


  1. Work on yourself. You are the only one in your way.
  2. Be passionate about your project.
  3. Purpose statement. Be clear about your “why”.
  4. Raise the necessity of getting your book out.
  5. Have a deadline.

You have it in you to be great and have a positive influence with your words.

What I got out of it:

My blogging is on point.

I need a business plan for each book. (Sounds like fun!)

Love the Power + Focus = Effect (they used a whole long explanation in the interview that I condensed down to this). It’s how magic works in The Librarians TV series!

Raising the necessity of getting a book out might be a great incentive to focus on writing!

Speak like a boss

“Anyone can achieve anything: it is simply a matter of how bad they want it.”

Believing is half the battle!

You have a big, powerful story. You use it in your writing. Narrow it down to speak about it.

Begin with the end in mind: message you want audience to receive and how they should feel.

Be a lion chasing your dreams.

Create opportunities for yourself.

Show a bit of vulnerability in speech: makes you relatable to audience.

Know what your audience wants to hear about.

Have footage of you doing speeches.

What I got out of it:

I did my speeches in 2019 perfectly 🙂

I need to do more speaking in 2020.

The biz of being an author: publishing like a pro

Giving back is important.

There is always more to do to be more professional. Educate yourself.

It’s important to treat yourself as a small business owner. (Know your taxes, have a business plan, have a budget.)

Take business training. You have one, so know how to run one.

Be as professional as possible.

Important to protect business:

  • Privacy policy on website
  • Email CRM for list and GDPR compliancy
  • Contracts
  • Copyright
  • Keeping track of income and expenses.

Have a project management plan.

Can do it all on your own or have a team to help you. What works for you.

Your book is your business.

Tools and partners allow us to look professionally published.

What I got out of it:

I embrace giving back (just look what I did with my launch in 2019 with the Princess Project).

I keep track of income and expenses, giving a complete file to my accountant every year.

I have various tools and partners in this business.

I do everything she said in this webinar. But I can probably do better with my project management plan (have it somewhere visual).

I know, this was a lot to go through – and I didn’t even type up all of my notes!

I’m going to skip this month’s IWSG question because you already got enough of my insecurities throughout this post!

Did you learn something new? Did you know about this summit before today? Have you attended? Any other summits/conferences that you would recommend?

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11 thoughts on “Notes on the Women in Publishing Summit 2020 #IWSG #writetips #pubtips”

  1. Wow! Sounds like it was quite an event – and you didn’t even have to leave home to attend!

    I don’t care what you were told about readers loving cliffhangers, I HATE them. Really. Especially when the next book doesn’t come out for years – or in some cases, not at all, if the publisher decides the previous book wasn’t selling enough copies to merit a sequel. And they have done this, many times, to me. I feel cheated. And then there is the Legendsong “trilogy” by Isobelle Carmody. A wonderful writer, but it ended a couple of decades ago, on a cliffhanger, after a Volume 2. LOTR was published in 3 volumes due to a publisher decision, for practical reasons. It was one novel.

    These days I will only buy a book if it doesn’t seem to end on a cliffhanger. A sequel is okay, but not the 3 volume epic fantasy.

    Just me, I guess. 😂

  2. I never heard about this summit. It sounds awesome and so cool how much you got out of it. And I don’t mind cliffhangers in a series though I do think there has to feel like there is some resolution to one of the problems in the story as well as ending with a cliffhanger.

  3. Some great information this year. I’m sad to have missed the summit, but you’ve summed up so many of the talks I don’t feel like I missed out 🙂

    I disagree about cliffhangers though. This reader says she hates them and means it! One book I read ended with a main character being kidnapped. I was so mad it put me off buying the next book in the series! If your characters and writing are good enough, you don’t need a cliffhanger to make readers want more 🙂

  4. Gosh Ronel, that sounds like a marvellous experience. Thank you, I shall add it to my diary for next year. Totally agree with you about needing deadlines too.

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